Posts by Joe Grundy

51

Do Witnesses Ever Talk About Their Living Forever And Never Dying?

by minimus in

jw
friends

my 86 year old mother stopped believing she was going into paradise earth without dying first, about 10 years ago.

my aunt used to think she was going to make it through the great tribulation.

even a week before she died, she clung on to this fairy tale.. do you think jws believe they will never die at all and will, in their lifetime, be on a paradise earth to live forever?.

Joe Grundy

"It was the first i realized that the best thing for me to do was not to try to open her eyes, but instead let her live the rest of her days in her paradise bliss dream. It would probably be too traumatic for her to realize that she wasted the majority of her life constantly giving up her time and resources to preach a message that is false."

I never was a dub, nor do I have family/friends who are. But I DO have family and friends who have fairly fundamentalist christian beliefs, including a sister and brother-in-law who have comfort in believing that their son (my nephew) who died at 13 is 'in a better place'.

I never discuss my atheist views and opinions with them (they know where I stand) nor would I ever do so with anyone who has a religious faith unless they initiate the discussion or they attempt to foist their beliefs on me. I would not want to challenge the faith of those who need or take comfort from it.

And, of course, it is usually a waste of time to discuss religion with the religious.

On the post-Armageddon note, there have been some good articles written (sorry, don't have links) about what life could be like in a JW 'Paradise On Earth'. 'Chilling' is probably the best word to describe it.

191

If god exists...

by dazed but not confused in

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if god exists, wouldnt it make more sense for him to show himself today - now that we are a more enlightened people?

Joe Grundy

NC:

An interesting thought. If I am a 'created being' well, either the creator or me got it sadly wrong.

I've done many things that I got completely wrong, and some I got very right (by my standards, not supernatural ones). I haven't really kept the score (e.g. not done weekly confessionals per RC rules) but I hope that at the end anyone interested enough would assess that the 'good' bits I did outweighed the 'bad'. Not for any supernatural purpose, just because I think that as a higher primate species and as a sentient being, I prefer to do 'good' rather than 'ill'. But I won't be around for the verdict, my atoms and molecules will sooner or later go back to cosmic dust.

I take responsibility for my own actions and I stand or fall by them. I am not subject to supernatural influences, nor am I subject to a 'celestial totalitarianism' which dictates my actions before, during, and after my life. I am me, as independent as I can be, and someone who revels in the freedom to think.

191

If god exists...

by dazed but not confused in

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if god exists, wouldnt it make more sense for him to show himself today - now that we are a more enlightened people?

Joe Grundy

NC:

Noted and will respond. Thanks.

"Life makes so much more sense now that I'm an atheist. And if this god ever wants to prove he's around, I will examine the new evidence. If he exists, he would know that. I don't even need a miracle."

Well, I agree with this but would expand it to change 'this god' to 'any god'. Raised in a western protestant religion I had a particular view of 'god' inculcated in me as a child - and it's hard to break out of that. A few years ago I had a Thai girlfriend. There was no point in asking her in detail about her beliefs (or anything else for that matter) but her custom and belief was to light incense to the buddha, to give to the monks, and so on. She could no more detail her faith than discuss quantum mechanics (nor could I) but it meant a lot to her and regulated her morals and her actions. Not much different to many western christians.

I do have some problems with the word 'atheist'. It seems to have become pejorative. I don't believe in the supernatural in all its forms, from the tooth fairy to 'ouija' seances. Some/many/most people don't believe in most alleged gods. I just go one step further and don't believe in any of them.

191

If god exists...

by dazed but not confused in

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if god exists, wouldnt it make more sense for him to show himself today - now that we are a more enlightened people?

Joe Grundy

Tammy:

With respect, I think you're dodging the issue a bit here.

You were born in the west, with a general concept of the modern western god. Had you been born in Saudi Arabia, for example, you would almost certainly have been raised in one of the islamic religions with a concept of allah and your view of Jesus would have been shaped by that - i.e. he was an honourable prophet but his message was superceded by the 'revelations' to Mohammed. To deny that could mean death.

Had you been born in Thailand, for example, you would be following the tenets of the buddha (and other gods) and would probably smile and acknowledge Jesus as one more source of teaching/thinking to be considered. And so the examples could continue.

It would, I think, be a fascinating (but impossible) exercise if one could start with a blank sheet, free of all influences, and truly make a comparative study of all of the religions (and religious influences) which have abounded since homo sapiens started thinking about these things.

191

If god exists...

by dazed but not confused in

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if god exists, wouldnt it make more sense for him to show himself today - now that we are a more enlightened people?

Joe Grundy

PS: and in the case of the newer religions, e.g. JWs and Mormons, he left it another 2,000 years before communicating the later, truer, stuff.

191

If god exists...

by dazed but not confused in

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if god exists, wouldnt it make more sense for him to show himself today - now that we are a more enlightened people?

Joe Grundy

Hitchens and others make a good point which I have never seen effectively refuted. It's this:

Homo Sapiens as a species have been around for at least 100,000 years (probably a lot more). For most of that time they lived in very difficult conditions - low life expectancy, high infant mortality, etc., and in fear of things they didn't understand such as earthquakes, volanoes, tsunami, and so on.

To be a christian you have to believe that for the first 98,000 years or so a caring and all-powerful god watched all this with arms folded. Then he decided to intervene in his creation and decided to do so to a largely illiterate people in a backwater (Palestine) rather than in a relatively advanced civilisation (e.g. China). His chosen method was human sacrifice - an advanced form of 'scapegoating'.

This rather suggests that god was uncaring, or not omniscient, or not all-powerful, or capricious.

14

Saw this - It made me laugh, I hope no one is offended!

by cantleave in

actually i don't care if they are.....enjoy.

.

Joe Grundy

PS: On the issue of 'offence' - I am a firm believer in the principles of free speech and of religious freedom (which includes freedom from religion).

I don't take offence when the religious tell me I am an infidel, a sinner, morally bankrupt, deserve to die, burn in hell, and that sort of stuff. In return I reserve the right to question, comment on and make jokes about their beliefs.

In the vernacular: 'Don't dish it out if you can't take it'.

14

Saw this - It made me laugh, I hope no one is offended!

by cantleave in

actually i don't care if they are.....enjoy.

.

Joe Grundy

I enjoyed the cartoon!

The comments above made me think (again) how christian religions and their derivatives are somehow instinctively thought of as 'western' or 'European' by so many people. Judaism and christianity are Asian religions by origin (western Asian, yes, but Asian all the same). I remember portrayals of Jesus as being light-skinned, blond-haired and blue-eyed (and speaking English, of course!).

I lived in Cyprus for several years. Eastern Med/western Asia. Indigenous Cypriots - in so far as any peoples are truly indigenous - are swarthy-skinned, dark-haired, dark-eyed. It's only about 100 miles from Israel/Lebanon and about the same from Egypt (Africa). Most peple would be hard-pressed to tell them apart.

Many Cypriots went to South Africa. I often wondered, but never asked, how they were regarded - or classified - during the (religiously-supported) apartheid years.

My understanding is that the 'early Christians' migrated in all directions - to Africa, east deeper into Asia, north to Turkey, and as far as the Indian sub-continent, as well as Europe, and there are established churches in all off those places. Strange in a way that some western new religions (I'm thinking of JWs and Mormons here as examples) while claiming 'special revelations' seem to have based themselves on the Roman church and it's derivatives.

16

Wife's FS report for last month... Zero!

by Captain Obvious in

i could just be reading too far into this but... even with plenty of opportunities and time to go, she didn't seem to make it out last month.

last night she said she was gonna go out today (the 1st) but... she's downstairs at the moment sipping coffee watching tv.

a few weeks ago on the long drive back from the assembly we talked about fs.

Joe Grundy

"Noah didn't make many converts either. Does that mean that his preaching was a waste of time? No, because preaching serves a dual purpose.

It also serves as a warning that Jehovah is soon going to intervene in the affairs of mankind, and those who are not prepared for it will probably not survive it"

Well, that's one view. In my (no doubt) cynical view it serves as a tool for the WT organisation to keep 'the faithful' busy and occupied, 'up with the program' so they don't stop to think, and don't dare to challenge.

Just my opinion, you understand, I may be wrong.

23

The Teaching of Evolution in UK Schools Mandatory

by Joe Grundy in

link to news story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20547195 (sorry, don't know how to make it 'clickable').. i, for one, am glad to see that this has been clarified.

is it the same in the us?.

Joe Grundy

NC:

Thanks for that, though it made me sad.

In some ways, the US is held up as one of the few states (countries) in which religion is held at bay because of its constitution. It doesn't actually seem to work out too well. Can you imagine a presidential candidate who was a declared atheist? No, nor me. One day, may be ...